sleeping & reading

[metaphortunate]

So apparently sleep training is a bad word? J. said that she went to a mom-baby yoga class and during the bit where you go around and say what's up with you, one of the moms said her baby was up all night forever and she was about to die and one of the other moms suggested sleep training and apparently all the other moms would have reacted more positively if she had suggested boiling the baby in oil for twenty minutes before bedtime*. Seems they practically shamed the poor woman out of the room. I did not know this! If I had, I - okay, I probably would still have told people at my moms' group 8-month meetup that we had started sleep training, but at least I would have had the chance to get all defensive about it pre-emptively.

Anyway, we started sleep training the little dude on Friday night. Friday night was horrible. Saturday night was better than it had been before we started. Last night was aces. Although we are doing the Sleepeasy Solution thing where you gradually take down the amount of time he nurses, so I am still nursing him 3x a night, only now I am setting an alarm to do it which is extra annoying. But in less than a week if all goes well it will be 2x a night. And in less than two weeks if all goes well it will be only once, and my current plan is to keep one feed in the middle of the night for a while. So we'll see how it goes!

I read Sacred Games I think because someone recced it to badgerbag in one of her recs request posts, though I can't find it now. If you learned about India only from this book you would believe that India was a one billion person country made entirely of sadness and gritty misery and corruption and really, really depressing sex. (Well - I would say it's only really depressing for the men in the book about, maybe, um, 65% of the time? But it is clearly depressing for the women and little boys about 98% of the time, and I believe that if sex is depressing for even only one of the parties involved, it is depressing sex. Also, by "depressing" I mostly mean "no one ever considers it rape because somebody is getting paid - although not necessarily the person getting fucked - or else the people are married, but if you happen to believe that rape can happen under those circumstances, this book is about as rapey as Game of Thrones.") But then if you learned about England only from the works of P.D. James you would come away with the impression that England was a tiny country made only of despair and crippling social anxiety and tiny amounts of desultory, depressing, although at least mostly consensual sex. Having been there, that was not the impression I got. What I find interesting is that if you learned about Chicago only from the works of Sara Paretsky you might actually want to visit Chicago some day!

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* Note: don't do this. Your baby will be dangerously undercooked unless you boil it for at least 40 minutes, and 45 is more likely for a baby of about 12 lbs.

Comments

[kore]

But then if you learned about England only from the works of P.D. James you would come away with the impression that England was a tiny country made only of despair and crippling social anxiety and tiny amounts of desultory, depressing, although at least mostly consensual sex

//dies TRUE STORY

And some frighteningly well-read people. The literary references in James are always kinda terrifying.

[metaphortunate]

True! But they seem to quietly despair over all their literature!

[kore]

Oh man, that scene where Dalgliesh looks at the dead girl's bookshelves and sees his own poetry. That always got me.

[resolute]

I love your summary of P.D. James.

Also, never having heard of sleep training, that is ABSOLUTELY what we did. Because a baby with a parent sleep-deprived to the point of homicide is not a happy baby.

So, you know, totes got your back.

[metaphortunate]

*high fives*

[pantryslut]

The crunchier the moms and/or the closer your proximity to Berkeley, the worse sleep training is as a concept. Along with feeding your baby formula, sugar or non-organic milk, and allowing them to even see a television set (on or off) before they're, oh, say, five.

The parents I've hung with have tended to be a little more relaxed on the subject. But, you know, as I've said before, having twins gives you permission to do anything to remain sane, apparently.* I continue to exploit this to the fullest.

* Or my apparent "don't cross me or I'll cut you" demeanor extends to child care issues, too. Hard to tell.

[metaphortunate]

Yeah, I personally would never dare to judge a parent of multiples! I bet that's pretty common.

[wordweaverlynn]

It's common up to the point of Octomom. Then everybody has a field day.

[metaphortunate]

Argh, sadfax.

[badgerbag]

I think it was called something different but we did do the "let him cry" thing which I found incredibly difficult but we timed it he would usually go to sleep after less than 5 minutes of crying.

I still nursed 3 times a night somehow though.

[kate_nepveu]

Your footnote made me laugh.

(Baby sleep is second only to breastfeeding, IME, as an anxiety-ridden and fraught topic, which naturally leads to lots of defensiveness and judging and other unpleasantness. May the Junebug sleep well however it seems best to you to do so.)

(Actually on further reflection it may be first, since "How's the baby sleeping?" is the standard baby small-talk question the same way "How are you feeling" is the standard pregnancy small-talk question, and the constant inquiries, IME, really start to wear on the nerves if the answer is "not well.")

[lovepeaceohana]

Yeah. I think the Natural Parents Network is having a carnival this month or next whose theme is something like, "I'm a Natural Parent, but I have to admit, I've ... sleep trained/used a stroller/bottle-fed/used disposable diapers/etc." and the attitude around it is just very, very Judgey McJudgeypants. Like, it's good that they're hosting this carnival, and creating a space to be open about how they're not actually perfect moms! And at the same time it's so, so sad that the predominant discourse in those crunchy circles is so shaming that a mom can't even admit to sleep-training her kids because that's tantamount to abuse, or someshit.

Whatever, I say. Keep your sanity - the truism about how if Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy still sounds true to me.

[metaphortunate]

"Natural parents", oh my god. Now I am going to have to go check this out. We always said we were going to practice detachment parenting anyway!

[lovepeaceohana]

Yeah, the call for submissions is here. I mean, I'd put myself on that spectrum I guess, because I did do elimination communication (plus disposable diapers), I breastfed (and formula fed), our kids still cosleep with us, etc. and in general I agree with the principles of, you know, respecting your child as a whole human being. But even I make the O.o face at some of the things these folks do.

[metaphortunate]

Oh, I don't object to most of the stuff they actually do*! I mean, it's no skin off my nose if someone homeschools or doesn't use diapers or whatnot, if it works for you, awesome. I've heard of people having really good results with EC. I just *snerk* at the name "Natural Parents", like everyone else is an unnatural parent?

*I do have a problem with the not vaccinating, but I can't say I find it funny.

[dr_memory]

like everyone else is an unnatural parent?

Oh yes. Which they'll be happy to tell you. At length.

[rachelmanija]

One of my friends did sleep training and had the exact same experience you did. She does a "dreamfeed" after she puts him to bed - do you do that?

[metaphortunate]

Yeah! So the Sleepeasy idea is, you let the kid put himself back to sleep, which means you have to make sure he's not waking up because he's actually hungry. So for a week before we started we wrote down when he woke up to nurse and figured out he was waking an average of 3x a night to feed. So now I set an alarm and do this "dreamfeed" thing BEFORE he would wake up hungry. But two of them, I am slowly cutting down the amount I feed him, and the theory is that gradually I will cut it down to nothing and he will become used to not eating at that time and eat more during the day to make up for it. We'll see if it actually works, of course. But I plan to keep doing the dreamfeed in the middle of the night for a while; eventually I'll phase it out, of course, but I think I'll wait till he's a bit older.

[cyprinella]

Wait, what? the whole "eventually they get old enough that you just let them cry themselves out and you get to sleep" thing is now heresy? Hell, you even do that with puppies and crate training. I thought that was just a part of the whole process. But I am not a parent so I haven't been keeping up.

[metaphortunate]

Well, people do different things! And I only have one baby, so I don't know much, but my understanding is that different babies do well with different approaches. So far - and this is very tentative as it has only been a few days - our baby is doing very well with being put down awake and allowed to fall asleep on his own. Though there was some crying involved on the first night.

[pantryslut]

my understanding is that different babies do well with different approaches.

It would be a better parenting world if more people understood this, too.

[badgerbag]

I was also a fan of "give the baby a transitional object instead of the boob" approach. crying? HERE IS YOUR BLANKET.... LOVE TEH BLANKET.

[kore]

Isn't part of the thing about letting babies cry themselves out teaching them how to self-regulate emotions? Haha I know nothing about parenting, cats don't count and once when I had to take the calico to the vet I was such a crying helicopter parent the vet offered me a tranq.

[spuffyduds]

Is it safe to put the stuffing in the baby before cooking, or do you recommend cooking it in a separate container?

[metaphortunate]

Well, our baby complains if we do not stuff him as much as possible at every opportunity.

[spuffyduds]

*sniggers*

[copracat]

I always thought that non-parents were the most judgemental because it's so easy to be judgey when you haven't experienced parenthood but apparently no, other parents can be worse. Yikes.

[metaphortunate]

The problem is that if you are doing something different than what I am doing then that means that maybe I am not doing the best possible thing for my child and that is going to make me very angry!

[kore]

Man, this is reminding me of people in my neighbourhood when I admit I feed my cats canned food. It's pricey hippie organic canned cat food, but you would think I was letting them eat Kitty McDonald's. "WE FEED OUR CATS RAW FOOD." And I'm like....uh....good for you!

that means that maybe I am not doing the best possible thing for my child and that is going to make me very angry!

That is so insightful.

[dr_memory]

Or worse yet: you are potentially implying that the incredibly difficult and self-abnegating thing I did for my child might not have been strictly necessary and for that I am going to killjudge you silentlyreally loudly.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch and a half.

[metaphortunate]

Oh god, for sure.

[lovepeaceohana]

Angry and defensive, yes, and more willing to dig in my heels because I HAVE to be doing it right, because considering that I am doing it wrong is too painful to think about.

I've also noticed - it's not quite a trend, per se, but the general vibe I get from a lot of that crunchy community is that anything less than what they are doing is abusive. Really. And it's less a judgey thing than, I dunno, they're so afraid of the possibility of abusing their kids that they are going to do these other things which are clearly, CLEARLY not abusive. Which is an instinct I understand!

tl;dr hell is other parents.

[surexit]

England was a tiny country made only of despair and crippling social anxiety and tiny amounts of desultory, depressing, although at least mostly consensual sex

Speaking as an inhabitant, that's pretty close. Particularly the crippling social anxiety. I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW WE MANAGE TO REPRODUCE.

[metaphortunate]

Booze! :D!

[surexit]

HORRIFYINGLY TRUE.

[badgerbag]

Read the Inda series instead! It was very amusing, with pirates.