metaphortunate son (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
metaphortunate) wrote2015-11-05 10:23 pm
metaphortunate) wrote2015-11-05 10:23 pm
Entry tags:
do as I say, Part II-A
Okay, here's a thing.
The conversation I wrote about yesterday? I know it's wrong. I mean, I have an ear for this, I know that it's funny. But I honestly don't 100% know exactly why.
I mean, it's ironic that my mom is bugging me to break a habit that she has absolutely no intention of breaking herself, right? But is that any worse than me telling my kid to relax and get some sleep when I know there's no chance I'll be doing it myself? And I know what would happen if I told my mom to lay off my coffee habit if she's not going to kick her own, because I've had this conversation before. She would say, with perfect sincerity, that my health and wellbeing are much more important to her than her own.
Which is true. I don't talk about it much, because it's not funny, or cute, or some traumatic shit that I have to work through, which are the main reasons why I talk about my family. It's just been a constant source of support in my life: I have always had parents who care deeply about my health and wellbeing, yea, even above their own. How lucky am I. And if they're sometimes spectacularly bad at figuring out how to support that goal; well, sometimes they're not. They did get a number of things right. And I wouldn't be doing nearly as well as I am without all the love and help they gave me throughout my life, for sure.
But, it's still kind of fucked up to not be able to drink tea for breakfast in your own house without being confronted with how disappointing it is that you haven't reached a goal that you weren't trying for and aren't interested in, right?
There's still something fucked up about caring so much about someone else's health and happiness that you push them to do shit in pursuit of it that is way too hard or tedious or unpleasant to do yourself, right?
I really want to know what exactly the problem is. What is the funny part? What is the fucked up part? Because I know something is wrong, but I don't know what it is, and if I don't know what it is, how am I going to avoid doing it myself?
The conversation I wrote about yesterday? I know it's wrong. I mean, I have an ear for this, I know that it's funny. But I honestly don't 100% know exactly why.
I mean, it's ironic that my mom is bugging me to break a habit that she has absolutely no intention of breaking herself, right? But is that any worse than me telling my kid to relax and get some sleep when I know there's no chance I'll be doing it myself? And I know what would happen if I told my mom to lay off my coffee habit if she's not going to kick her own, because I've had this conversation before. She would say, with perfect sincerity, that my health and wellbeing are much more important to her than her own.
Which is true. I don't talk about it much, because it's not funny, or cute, or some traumatic shit that I have to work through, which are the main reasons why I talk about my family. It's just been a constant source of support in my life: I have always had parents who care deeply about my health and wellbeing, yea, even above their own. How lucky am I. And if they're sometimes spectacularly bad at figuring out how to support that goal; well, sometimes they're not. They did get a number of things right. And I wouldn't be doing nearly as well as I am without all the love and help they gave me throughout my life, for sure.
But, it's still kind of fucked up to not be able to drink tea for breakfast in your own house without being confronted with how disappointing it is that you haven't reached a goal that you weren't trying for and aren't interested in, right?
There's still something fucked up about caring so much about someone else's health and happiness that you push them to do shit in pursuit of it that is way too hard or tedious or unpleasant to do yourself, right?
I really want to know what exactly the problem is. What is the funny part? What is the fucked up part? Because I know something is wrong, but I don't know what it is, and if I don't know what it is, how am I going to avoid doing it myself?
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If your tea/coffee drinking isn't causing you massive problems in the form of heart arrhythmia/tachycardia (which it can for some people), or massively aggravating anxiety levels to the point where you can't function (which it can for some people), it is NO ONE'S BUSINESS.
I mean, there's even data that strongly suggests that coffee protects against type 2 diabetes and Parkinson's disease.
Adults should have their autonomy/choices respected, especially for stuff that isn't all that dangerous.
There's a major difference between trying to get someone to stop drink-driving VS trying to get someone to stop drinking coffee.
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b) Overenthusiastic praise for something that didn't really warrant it, possibly in the context of ignoring actual significant milestones?
c) Unwillingness to drop it based on correction of assumption.
d) Doubling down on nagging about something that's ... really not that big a deal.
e) Blatant hypocrisy, if it were actually as big a deal as she were making it out to be.
f) Obliviousness to science (especially if was caffeinated tea you were drinking).
(At least it wasn't like my dad, cheering on something that actually should have been red flags gongs and a trip to a psych.)
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I mean, yes, headaches if I don't feed the beast, but...okay, at this point, no matter how bad I may or may not feel, if I ask myself "Do I have any reason, really, to get out of bed today?" the answer will be "Because if you do not, rambunctious monkeys will keep jumping on your spleen until it actually bursts. Go feed them." But there have been times in the past when the answer was "Because if you don't go get a cup of coffee then you will have an ugly headache round about 2 pm." And that has genuinely gotten me out of bed on days when I couldn't think of another reason to. And that is valuable.
But on the other hand, that is not really the issue, because Mom does believe, for whatever stupid-ass reason, that caffeine is bad for you. And she does act on her beliefs, I mean, that's a human thing, we have to do that, I accept that. So yeah, from her point of view, I'm asking her to just watch me be Wrong and know that I'm hurting myself and not try to do anything about it.
And from my point of view, YES THAT IS WHAT I AM ASKING YOU TO DO. And if you can't do it, we're going to have a problem.
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the bedtime fears example is a parent to under-18 year old child
vs the coffee is a parent to a fellow adult.
When people are over 18, we as a society are supposed to grant them autonomy and respect their wishes.
Whereas with children, there is a certain amount of "I know you say you are not sleepy, but it is 9pm and you are going to bed anyway."
Once people are old enough to vote/drive/have their own children/do a paid job/drink alcohol/consent to sex etc, this is supposed to stop.
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"Caring for someone's health and well being" is Not the Same Thing as telling them how they should live their lives. That's the fucked-up part.
The funny part is that she isn't (or at least doesn't present) as self-aware enough to know that "I already made myself coffee" is not the right closing line for that conversation. Most of the people I know would say something like "Oh, because I'm not good at quitting coffee either, I've already had some." Then it wouldn't be funny. And if it started with, "I know you're smart enough to make this decision for yourself, but I keep hoping you'll quit coffee," it wouldn't be anywhere near so fucked up.
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ETA: Oh god, now I'm imagining just randomly putting the kids to bed with "Goodnight! Remember, there's no reason we should die anytime soon!" Mmm, reassuring.
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It always has been, but now that they are adults, their autonomy includes not having to listen to my advice if they choose not to.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzErh_s62Wk
"Dear Mama, not much to tell you about this week, the stitches came out yesterday and the cut's hardly infected at all. How's the weather up there?"
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So as long as you can see your boys as themselves, with their own needs and desires, and not as an extension of you, you'll do fine.
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(Harimad here) Following this tangent a bit...
(Anonymous) 2015-11-06 08:08 pm (UTC)(link)But that's limited to keeping them healthy rather than comfortable, and I'd say "It's cold, put on a sweater" rather than "I'm cold."
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I am familiar with the problem of parents who struggle to differentiate What Is Right For Me from What Is Right For Everyone Especially YOU, MISSY!!! It has been said that I tackle this problem with more vehemence and sadistic enthusiasm than is strictly appropriate; however, it has been an effective buttoutsky strategy for me. (Sadly, it is not as effective by proxy, and my siblings always end up fighting their own battles with their own tools.)
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You were engaging with your kid's priorities in a way that's intended to make them feel secure in themselves. Your mom, on the other hand, was imposing her own priorities on you in a way meant make you feel insecure in yourself, and dependent upon her.
Like, she was praising you in a way that meant "you were doing Something Wrong, but I was being The Bigger Person and not calling you on it before." It's criticism more than it is praise. And it's specifically criticism coming from a position of authority, because she's making this spontaneous statement of approval to imply that you need that approval, or your decision's not valid.
(In my experience, this sort of thing mostly comes either immediately before or immediately after a series of criticisms.)
And she probably already knew you weren't trying to quit coffee; if she cared about that specific thing, she'd be trying to quit herself. What she was doing was forcing you into a position where you have to either "disappoint" her by telling the truth, or lie to her to keep her approval.
In the first case, she gets to sigh and look at you sorrowfully (or whatever her personal idiom is), thus presumably making feel bad for Breaking Your Mother's Heart. The idea is that you'll want to make it up to her and/or get that quickly-withdrawn fragment of approval back.
In the second case, she gets to feel that she's in control of your self-worth enough to make you want to lie to her to keep her regard. Later you might even avoid drinking coffee around her to keep up the lie! And whenever she sees you drinking tea/water, she'll get the little thrill that controlling people get from making other people feel they've got to change their behavior.
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