you swim in a dudely sea

[metaphortunate]

Hordes of people are freaking out about Tempest's suggestion not to read any books by straight cis white men for a whole year.

So, like; none of them ever had a year where they didn't read a single book by a Latina lesbian, and a trans black woman, and a Malaysian man, and so on, did they? They read something by every single combination of ethnicity and sexuality every single year?

Wait, they didn't? There was a year they didn't read anything by a gay Latina? THEN WHY THE FUCK IS IT A BIG DEAL IF THERE IS A YEAR IN WHICH SOMEONE DOESN'T READ ANYTHING BY A WHITE MAN.

Incidentally, I did this. One year right after college, I decided I was going to only read books by women, for one whole year. I highly recommend it. I read books I wouldn't ordinarily have read, that didn't at first appeal to me, simply because I had arbitrarily placed more familiar books temporarily off limits. I picked up books by authors who were labeled by their marketing as not FOR me; same reason, and it was great.

But more importantly, it reprogrammed my brain. It took white men out of their Center Of The Universe, Authority, Source And Validator Of Information status in my internal map of the world in a way that they have never fully recovered from; though I should do a refresher year sometime. You really, really, really cannot tell what the water you are swimming in is like till you step onto dry land sometime. Yes, there are tons of great books by white guys. I read them now! But it did me no harm and great good to spend a year leaving them to one side.

Comments

[stonebender]

*Applause*

[serene]

Eggzackly.

[rmc28]

Absolutely :-)

[oursin]

As an outcome of the reading for Sekkrit Projekt #ifitoldyouidhavetokillyou, I have probably read more works by male authors during the past 2 years than in, well, pretty much any given year since I could read for myself, possibly even counting when I was doing EngLit at uni.

Am not convinced this makes me a statistical outlier.

[davidgillon]

The point that concerns me is the whole bunch of diverse people, who also happen to be straight, cis, white males, that this will exclude - disabled, non-anglophone, non-traditionally religious, non-traditional families, raised in poverty, left-wing and so on.

I should admit to self-interest here being a straight, cis, white male, who also happens to be disabled and a wannabee writer, but as a disability activist the one thing that persistently concerns me about We Need Diverse Books is the number of genuinely concerned people who interpret diversity as solely a character/author ethnicity issue, or if we're lucky character/author ethnicity/sexual orientation/gender issues, and this suggestion actively reinforces that interpretation. Number of protagonists I've seen using my major mobility aid (crutches) in 40-odd years of reading, precisely two. Diversity is so much more than just ethnicity/sexual orientation/gender, but go and look at the articles and essays that have been published in the last year and more than half will construct diversity as solely an ethnicity issue (in part because that has the best stats), while maybe a third will remember to include gender and sexual orientation. Disability and the other less well recognised forms of diversity, a fraction of that.

I can see the attraction of 'let's not read straight, cis, white males for a year,' but isn't that just jumping from one lack of diversity trap into another? Wouldn't it be better, wouldn't it be more inclusive of the true breadth of diversity, to construct it as 'lets not read non-diverse authors for a year?'

(And I have to add, given this week's sad news: I'm just re-reading some Pratchett - straight, cis, white, male, and one of our most eloquent voices on diversity and inclusion)

[metaphortunate]

No.

[davidgillon]

I'm perfectly happy for people to disagree, but if you could explain why you don't think my point is valid I'd be really grateful. There as so few voices for the less well represented forms of diversity that make it through the publishing minefield I just don't think we can afford to rule out a single one.

[metaphortunate]

You could have said:

If what you're looking for in this year is to diversify your reading, make sure to read Dorothy Allison for a dirt-poor Southern American perspective, and Harriet McBryde Johnson for incisive writing about disability, and all of Colette's work for a non-anglophone perspective, and Alice Walker's books for unsentimental looks at non-traditional families, and so on.

Or you could have said:

And when you're done with this year, you could choose another year to read books by people from unfamiliar perspectives in other ways, such as disability, etc.

But what you chose to say was:

The real real diversity is among different types of white men! Terry Pratchett was a white man: aren't white men awesome? Wouldn't you be sad if you spent even one eightieth of your estimated lifespan reading Rosemary Kirstein instead of Terry Pratchett? I myself am a white man! Why would you limit yourself even for a year to the extremely narrow viewpoint of everyone who is not a white man? NEVER LOOK AWAY FROM THE WHITE MEN.

So, lol no.

[davidgillon]

Thanks for expanding.

I approach this as both a disability activist and a fan, and inevitably also as a straight, cis, white, male, because I can't help having been born those things. There is so little SF/F, particularly at novel length (my preference) that comes through with a view of disability that I don't find problematical that I'm having to reach back to Elizabeth Bear's Jenny Casey books (a decade old now) to find a portrayal of disability that doesn't seem to me in some way problematical or just plain lacking in any basic understanding of disability*. With so few books in the genre getting it right, I'm not prepared to exclude a book based on the author's ethnicity or whatever. Doesn't mean I won't read anything written by any other author who happens to get it right, no matter their ethnicity, gender, sex or orientation, but if only one book gets it right this year, and from what I've read in previous years that is a very real possibility, then I'm not prepared to deny myself the one chance to see my disabled identity reflected in the page, no matter who wrote it.

* John Scalzi came damn close last year with Lock-In, but on reflection there are elements of locking the crip away in the attic that are problematic.

[phi]

You mean you don't think there are disabled, poor, non anglophone, non traditionally religions writers who are also women or POC or queer? I think in this comment you are actually proving Tempest and metaphortunate's points.

Also, you missed non neurotypical and not college educated. Most people only see the identity categories where they differ from the privileged default assumption.

[davidgillon]

You mean you don't think there are disabled, poor, non anglophone, non traditionally religions writers who are also women or POC or queer?

Ow! Where did I say that? Absolutely there are people who aren't straight, cis, white males who are also disabled, poor, non anglophone, non traditionally religions writers. My point is that I see so many people phrasing the diversity in publishing issue as solely an ethnicity issue, or solely ethnicity+QUILTBAG issues, that I think we need to speak up to ensure the other diversities, such as my own disability, aren't forgotten. And even if that wasn't the intention in Tempest's suggestion to avoid straight, cis, white male writers for a year, I think it risks reinforcing the ethnicity+QUILTBAG only perception, and I think that's something that is a legitimate target for discussion.

Disabled people are roughly 20% of the world's population (using the UK's inclusionary definition of disability), yet our representation in published writing, especially in the existence of published fiction writing that addresses the widespread and open discrimination we face is minuscule. I genuinely don't think we can afford to exclude a single disabled voice if they can make it through the publishing labyrinth and out the other side into print, and I find the idea of excluding some of those voices in the name of diversity just bizarre. And similarly for other critically under-represented areas of diversity. I can only address this point from the position of being straight, cis, white and male, because that's what I am, but I am also a diverse voice and I think that gives me the right to say 'Hang on a minute...'

As for missing non-neurotypical, it's not really possible for me to miss it, amongst other disabilities I'm also non-neurotypical. While not everyone within the non-neurotypical camp considers neurodiversity a disability, I do (just not a disability that needs fixing). It's also one of the disabilities I've faced discrimination around, so important for me to ensure it's a voice that's heard. Fair point on non-college educated, I'd actually come back to update that list to include Traveller/Gypsy as that's a white ethnicity that faces open hostility and discrimination in the UK, and I should probably have included fat/plus-sized, but part of the point I'm trying to make is that in campaigning for representation of diverse voices we need to presume and encourage inclusivity for every diversity, and every intersectionality, and remind people to always consider that. It's probably impossible to list every diverse group when there's always going to be one you've forgotten or weren't aware of - orphans, street kids, immigrants to name a few more - so let's think of lists as a start, not a limit.

[kalmn]

Read them next year.

[davidgillon]

I live my life in an opiate fog, chance of remembering something to read next year, just about zilch - my reading is overwhelmingly whatever's being talked about or reviewed right now. And as I've said in other replies, there are so few SF/F books with non-problematic portrayals of disability that it may also mean not seeing myself reflected in the page at novel length once this year.

[kalmn]

A: make lists. I have found this to be very useful in dealing with brain fog.
B: seriously only white cis men can write non-problematically about disability? Seriously? Get over yourself; the rest of us can be disabled too.

[davidgillon]

Problem with lists, remembering there's a list to look at. Really not a solution that works well for me. (Presumes having the spoons to maintain a list amongst other things)

Secondly, where on earth did I say that? If you look at my other replies you'll see I cite Elizabeth Bear's Jenny Casey books as the most recent non-problematic depiction of disability in SF/F I can remember. If I have to go back a decade to find my diversity represented in a way that I can't see a problem with, do you really think I care who writes the next one? I just want a novel I can point at and say 'look, X gets it right, you can write realistic and well rounded characters in contemporary SF/F', and I don't want people to skip that book simply because of who the author is, not when it may be the only book that gets it right this year. The one thing I'm passionate about here is doing something about my diverse community's near total absence from leading roles in my genre of choice.

[snippy]

But lots of authors in the straight, white, cis male category have had disabilities and still got published and became part of Great Literature. I think some were likely aneurotypical, too. It's just that the privileges associated with being white, cis, male (het not always necessary) overcame those negatives. Even if they could and did write diverse and inclusive books, society intentionally excluded similarly-situated individuals (that is, with similar disabilities or health problems or whatever) because they were not white cis, (presumed) het males.

[davidgillon]

Agreed, absolutely nothing I've said was meant to imply we don't have a distinct advantage. But two points, first, I'm very much a genre specific reader and second the occurrence of well-written disabled protagonists in SF/F is lamentably low, it isn't an exaggeration to say that in most years I won't see my disabled identity (far more important to me than being white, cis, straight or male because being a neurodiverse spoonie with mobility impairments defines me and every moment of my life) reflected in a single significant character. If there is only one book that reflects my diverse identity this year, and it's even more likely there will be none, then I'm not prepared to deny myself reading it in the name of diversity if the writer happens to be straight, cis, white and male

[kest]

Here is what I don't understand about your comments here. I understand you have different priorities than Tempest. And they are great priorities! Yes, disability is an aspect of diversity that absolutely should be paid attention to and encouraged. There is absolutely not enough representation. But this is not even a case of saying 'I think this is a great challenge AND there is this great book I know of coming out this year that is by a cis white disabled male - please consider including that in your diversity challenge.' Or 'Please consider reading this book by Elizabeth Bear as part of your challenge this year, as it is both by a woman and a good representation of disability.' No, basically you seem to be saying 'this isn't a good challenge, because some book MIGHT come out this year by a cis white male that represents disability accurately.' This thing...it's a CHALLENGE, not a law. It's an encouragement to step outside of your comfort zone and read things you might not normally read. No one is going to stand around judging you, if some amazing book comes out halfway through the year by a cis white male and you read it because it has a character with mobility issues in it. Or if you don't want to take the challenge, don't take it. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

[davidgillon]

there is this great book I know of coming out this year that is by a cis white disabled male - please consider including that in your diversity challenge.

This is sort of my point, because (while he isn't disabled that I know of) I suspect (or at least hope) that John Scalzi's 'Lock In' is going to be a contender for best novel in this year's Hugo Awards. It's not a perfect book about disability, but it is closer than just about anything in SF/F I've read since Bear's Jenny Casey books, and it does talk explicitly about disability discrimination, ranging all the way from minor verbal abuse up to physical assault, and its protagonist isn't just disabled, but is never gendered. Maybe there was another good, potentially Hugo-winning, SF/F novel about disability last year, but I never saw one, not from a white, cis, straight male, not from anyone. The situation is so bad I'm literally talking about single books with disabled protagonists in any one year making it a good year.

I want people who read in the genre thinking about the lack of disabled protagonists. I want them thinking about the fact that when disability is mentioned, as often as not it's with a belief we need to be cured, and that the critical reception assumes that that is what disabled people really want (try that for any other minority and see how far you get). There is an anthology of short disability-focused SF due mid-year ('Accessing the Future' - and I was so delighted when the submission guidelines said 'cure narratives not wanted') and combining that with the impact of a possible best novel win for 'Lock In' would be a really effective base for campaigning. But to get that best novel Hugo we need as many people who care about diversity in SF/F to read 'Lock In' as possible, and vote for it, never mind that the author happens to be a straight, cis, white male. (I'd prefer it had been written by a straight, cis, white, disabled male, because then he'd be an even more effective spokesperson on disability discrimination, but you can't have everything).

And that's my point. 'Lock In' is out there, go read it.

you seem to be saying 'this isn't a good challenge

Not at all, I'm saying it could be a better, more inclusive challenge just by rewording it to encourage people to spend a year reading works that are either by diverse authors, or which feature diversity as a major theme. Is that really so terribly different?

[kest]

BTW, there is also this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1guGcsfxt5NCYjTcc1IT59XaLaoxRuojMWDfE9YyLmXY/edit#gid=0

(This was made by someone as part of/in response to Tempest's challenge.)

[hitchhiker]

yes indeed!

[jedusaur]

A friend of mine is doing something like this with fandom this spring. It is thought-provoking.