metaphortunate: (Default)
metaphortunate son ([personal profile] metaphortunate) wrote2013-12-29 03:43 pm

they should just

You know that argument which, I believe it is [personal profile] thefourthvine who has named it the "They should just" argument? You know the one. Poor people should just make better financial decisions. Women who don't want kids should just not have sex. The argument that announces that 1) there are important real-world reasons why the "they" the speaker is talking about don't just do what they're suggesting; 2) but they don't care enough to find out what those reasons are.

Is it just me, or do most of the arguments I've seen against gentrification boil down to "People richer than the people who used to mostly live in this neighborhood should just not move into this neighborhood?"

At least the Google Bus protesters in San Francisco and the East Bay are making a different argument, i.e. "If you move into this neighborhood we're going to make your commute even more fucking awful than it already is." Because the opposite of a "They should just" argument is a "How can we?" argument. "How can we make it unpleasant enough to move into our neighborhood that it's no longer worth it to you?" is kind of a dickish argument, but at least it's something.
ironed_orchid: watercolour and pen style sketch of a brown tabby cat curl up with her head looking up at the viewer and her front paw stretched out on the left (Default)

[personal profile] ironed_orchid 2013-12-30 12:01 am (UTC)(link)
My "favourite" is the claim that people in poorer countries "should just stop having kids"... because it's (a) just so easy to do that and (b) the problem these days is not overpopulation, but distribution of resources.
wild_irises: (Default)

[personal profile] wild_irises 2013-12-30 01:04 am (UTC)(link)
For my money, most of the responsibility is not on the gentrifiers, but on urban planners and the like. However, what I think gentrifiers should do is not a "just"; I think they should work to make themselves part of the existing neighborhood, patronize businesses that are maybe designed for a somewhat different income level, and agitate for keeping some "affordable" housing near them, as opposed to seeing their neighborhood become more and more homogeneous. I don't like "they should just not move in," but I do see a huge difference between moving in to change it and moving in to be part of it.

I moved into my current neighborhood in 1984 and there is no doubt that we gentrified it somewhat when we moved in. And I had a much less sophisticated understanding of gentrification then. However, I have always been pleased by how slowly and incompletely it has gentrified, and I do what I can to keep it that way. To the extent we've lost people of color, it has mostly been because their houses became worth so much they chose to take the money and run, which is not something I can complain about.
pantryslut: (Default)

[personal profile] pantryslut 2013-12-30 06:35 am (UTC)(link)
Yes. It's not that gentrifiers "should just" not move in, it's that they should recognize that they are moving into an existing community and seek to become part of it, rather than remold it to suit their desires. They "should just" drop the frontier mentality that tells them the neighborhood they're moving into is empty -- because it usually isn't, and because what happens next is sadly predictable.

jesse_the_k: Professorial human suit but with head of Golden Retriever, labeled "Woof" (doctor dog to you)

[personal profile] jesse_the_k 2013-12-31 12:34 am (UTC)(link)
"my neighborhood isn't empty" !!!

nail, meet hammer. Thanks!
ambyr: pebbles arranged in a spiral on sand (nature sculpture by Andy Goldsworthy) (Pebbles)

[personal profile] ambyr 2013-12-30 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree, but I also think it's more complicated than that. Before my neighborhood began gentrifying, it had no grocery stores, just corner bodegas. I could make an effort to patronize those existing businesses--but I don't think the fact that the neighborhood was a food desert is necessarily worth preserving.

Meanwhile, a Walmart just moved in. It is very clearly targeted for people at a different income level from me, and it draws its patrons almost entirely from the more established residents of the neighborhood. It is very affordable. I don't think that means I should support it.

I try to get my tools at the local hardware shop, to see small shows at the local theater, to patronize the smaller, local restaurants (although one of the most established local coffee shops is owned and operated by a virulently anti-gay church; both the church and coffee shop are neighborhood institutions, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to eat there and help fund their campaigns). But my business isn't going to stop their landlords from selling their buildings out from under them.

Some days I think the only thing I can really do is do my best to engage with my neighbors, to wave at them and chat with them. But I'm also a symbol of something they don't want, something bigger than both of us, and I can't really blame them when they don't always want to engage with me.
dr_memory: (Default)

[personal profile] dr_memory 2013-12-30 06:15 pm (UTC)(link)
"People richer than the people who used to mostly live in this neighborhood should just not move into this neighborhood?"

Or as the meme seems to be quickly evolving: "People richer than the people who used to mostly live in this neighborhood should just move to Santa Clara."

"Good luck with that plan!"