calling M. Foucault, M. Foucault come in please

[metaphortunate]

Mr. E had a visit with a friend of his this week. Said friend has kids older than the Junebug, and as they were talking shop, as parents will do, the friend asked if we had any thoughts on discipline. Because at this point, apparently it is hard to take the kids over to anyone's houses because they do not hear the word "no" and that turns out to not be very much fun.

This is not a situation I want to find myself in four years from now. But I don't really know what to do about it. This is one reason I've loved the baby stage: you don't have to discipline a baby. Babies do what they gotta do. Older kids, I know you have to actually train and stuff - but I have no idea how.

Parents of kids older than babies - what have you done about discipline? Has it worked? Did you try different things? What did you start with, and when did you start, and how has your approach changed as the kids have gotten older?

I'm turning on anonymous comments on this one.

Comments

[snarp]

As someone who has dealt with a lot of other people's toddlers,

1) Do your best to be consistent about discipline, even if it causes social awkwardness. If you have to interrupt a conversation you're having to pick him up and say whatever you need to say to him, do it. If you've got to remove him from a situation, do it; if you say, "We're going straight home if you don't stop X," and he doesn't stop X, go straight home. Kids will absolutely notice when you're inconsistent, and they will start testing your limits.

If whoever you're talking to gets offended that you interrupted your conversation to raise your child, you definitely have my permission to flip them off.

2) Do your best not to come undone yourself when he cries or tantrums, or at least not to let him see that you're upset. Don't get visibly mad or scared, even if you feel you've got reason for it. If he's hurt/upset, doing this can start a feedback loop, and if he just wants attention, you're letting him know that crying is a tool he can use to get a reaction. I'm not saying to be dismissive, just to be calm.

(This message brought to you by the mother of a student I nicknamed "Mr. Weepy."

By the way, the kids called me "ijiwaru sensei," which means basically "Miss Meanie.")

3) This feels like kind of a weird thing to say, but you should never take it personally when he's bad. I've known parents who got seriously upset with their kids for acting up, because they seem to take it as a betrayal of some kind of trust. This is silly.

Reacting this way assumes that the kid understands social situations like an adult, which he/she really does not, even if he sometimes seems to. That's why he/she's throwing rocks at other kids/covering the water fountain with mud/whatever in the first place. Kids are obliged to act up because it's how they learn what's okay and what's not. Basically, if he's never bad, he never learns what bad is. I feel like building up a moral/social system is a lot like building up an immune system.

If a parent tells you that their kid is always good, then that parent is delusional. Even my absolute best students had off days (and their parents were never the ones who thought their kids were angels). If he's too good, observe him carefully for anomalous behaviour around cornfields.

[laurajv]

if you say, "We're going straight home if you don't stop X," and he doesn't stop X, go straight home.

I've also found that going straight to the nuclear option (like, "straight home") works much less well than staging it out; my kid would get so hysterical at the thought of having to go home that his behavior would get worse.

Going to "we'll sit down together and count our breathing to calm down" first eliminated 95% of the need to go-straight-home, for us, even though we did spend a bunch of gym classes mostly sitting off to the side together, counting breaths.

[(Anonymous)]

I want to reinforce your #3
This feels like kind of a weird thing to say, but you should never take it personally when he's bad
something fierce.

I grew up with parents who took all my errors, failures, tantrums, and second thoughts personally. While she was dying my mother complained about how poorly I treated her when I was 11. The day after she died my father complained about how I'd shamed him by foolish action when I was 12.

The result is decades of therapy and continual doubt that I'm OK. Think of the psychic joy you can bring to Junebug by avoiding this tendency!