calling M. Foucault, M. Foucault come in please

[metaphortunate]

Mr. E had a visit with a friend of his this week. Said friend has kids older than the Junebug, and as they were talking shop, as parents will do, the friend asked if we had any thoughts on discipline. Because at this point, apparently it is hard to take the kids over to anyone's houses because they do not hear the word "no" and that turns out to not be very much fun.

This is not a situation I want to find myself in four years from now. But I don't really know what to do about it. This is one reason I've loved the baby stage: you don't have to discipline a baby. Babies do what they gotta do. Older kids, I know you have to actually train and stuff - but I have no idea how.

Parents of kids older than babies - what have you done about discipline? Has it worked? Did you try different things? What did you start with, and when did you start, and how has your approach changed as the kids have gotten older?

I'm turning on anonymous comments on this one.

Comments

[snippy]

Physical removal starts working early and continues working for many years, but I started accompanying it with "You may not X" fairly early (maybe 6 months?) because I believed in explaining, trying to implant the value of logic and analysis. I also have a very firm "mother face" and "mother voice" according to my kids--I had absolute certainty that they were going to do what I asked, and I was mostly right. Tantrums resulted in an immediate removal from the situation (we'd go stay in the car if out and about) and other than safety supervision I ignored them when they were having a tantrum.

Time-outs other than tantrum removals never worked with my kids--they wanted time alone, they'd just play (there is, after all, an assumption in time-outs that the child craves social time). I was matter-of-fact about what I didn't like, with words and actions. Never spanked or yelled, and if I was angry I explained that it was at the situation, not the person.

I think other than basic socialization of the animal (e.g. toileting, using table utensils) I mostly used praise of behavior I wanted to see again. And I taught respect, things as simple and complex as not having to hug or kiss relatives unless they wanted to, having their own things that were left alone, giving them as many choices as I could manage (from what clothing to wear to what and how much to eat, what hobbies to pursue, etc.) and respect of me (I don't talk through the bathroom door, for example).

Some worked, some didn't. One of my sons lied to me constantly and, I suspect, still does--but he didn't know then that I saw right through him on some of it. He did fool me about some, more into his teen years.

The more I read about human development, the less I think I changed them. I gave opportunities for good to develop and express, and reinforced that, but I don't think I was at all successful in stopping them doing things I didn't want past the age of reason (between 8 and 10).