hey girl it's feminist fandom

[metaphortunate]

This was a reply to hradzka and then I thought I would just put it here as well.

Still, fandom is currently in a bit of a self-questioning state that it doesn't seem too eager to resolve. From my perspective as a non-feminist, this is at least partially because the answers presented by much of current feminist and leftist ideology would seem to me to be *answers that fandom does not want to hear.*

Yeah, you think that, because you think that there's 1) something wrong with feminism and 2) something wrong with our (where by "our" I mean female fandom, and therefore pretty obviously elide a huge number of differences) desires. God knows there's things wrong with feminism but it's not what you're thinking here. And what's wrong with our desires is only the inevitable outcome of what's wrong with the world. Read what Sugar wrote here about her teenage fantasies and their roots. Nobody's sexual development happened in a vacuum. Every woman in this world grew up in a world where men were presented every single damn day from a variety of sources as more intelligent valuable interesting strong capable central active resourceful blah blah blah, and incidentally, in a world where white men were presented as sexier smarter faster more valuable more cultured more interesting blah blah blah than non-white men, and do people really then wonder, somehow, when writing stories about canon that are 90% about white men, that our hindbrains come up with stories and desires for stories about white men? That the bits of our brains that are looking for fun and not hard work frequently consider their comfort zone to be white men? Surprise. And does that mean that those desires are wrong?

NO. Everybody makes their own erotic compromises with the patriarchy. We're going to die while the world is still fucked. We can't put our libidos on hold until everything is sorted out. And to sort out our libidos we'd not only have to sort out the world but we'd also have to hop in our imaginary time machine and go back and fix it so that we grew up in a fair world where people cared about what happened to people who weren't rich white men and that is also going to happen on the twelfth of never so you will forgive me if I say that there is nothing wrong with the way we live with our oppression by eroticizing it. I mean that. It's a survival trait that the brain eroticizes things it's afraid of or angry about, that is one of the ways we cope. And I love our survival. I will be cheerleading it forever. And when we find ways to not only survive but have fun with the place we are condemned to take, when we turn it into art and community and squee, I want to throw a fucking party. We win.

And questioning it is not wrong either. Feminism is not wrong about interrogating the whitecockers. Because that's how things get better. That's how we work on decolonizing our brains while living in our colonized brains. You say that this fic doesn't resolve or offer to resolve feminist fandom's ongoing internal conflict, but dude, to fix feminist fandom, you would have to fix the whole world. Are you seriously complaining that a 4000 word fanfic about a tumblr doesn't finish the job? It does its job, okay? It does its little part. It's one small step for fandom. I think it's a great story.

The story in question is When Fics Take on a Life of Their Own. Fandom: RPF/Feminist Ryan Gosling.

(Though to be honest I prefer Hey Girl, It's Kstew.)

Comments

[kore]

Thank. You. So much. That was great.

(Everyone loves the Ryan Tumblr, but yeah, the KStew one is better, if only because that actress gets SO MUCH shit for not being a perky!smiley!happy! girl, and portraying Bella, the punching bag for "why teenage girls suck." I mean, I don't like Bella, really, but the online criticism of the Twilight series just goes rapidly into misogyny awfully quickly.)

From my perspective as a non-feminist, this is at least partially because the answers presented by much of current feminist and leftist ideology would seem to me to be *answers that fandom does not want to hear.*

.............man, I hate to admit this, but every single time someone is proudly up-front about how Non-Feminist they are, I take them a lot less seriously. Because, really, if you think women have the right to own property, and vote, and work, and choose their own sexual partners, &c &c -- THAT'S FEMINISM. That is at least the foundation of it. Feminists fought for it. Society CHANGED. Not all of it, not everywhere, and not completely by any means, and God knows the patriarchy is still fucking shit up everywhere, but it happened. And for someone (especially a guy) to kick back and say "I am not a feminist," when really pretty much what they always mean is "I don't agree with the liberal politics of some feminists," is....just Wrong, to me anyway.

And especially if they're guys, because I'm like look, feminism really isn't about what you think it is. (I know this is an irritated and incoherent response. I'm partly trying to figure out why that particular phrase is such an instant annoyance to me.)

[cofax7]

And especially if they're guys, because I'm like look, feminism really isn't about what you think it is.

Seconded.

Maybe I'm playing "no true Scotsman" here, but it does seem like 75% of the disdain for feminism comes from a misunderstanding of what it is.

[kore]

Yeah, or thinking that it is inextricably tied to a very specific political agenda. Which, I won't lie, I do think it fits in better with, say, the dreaded Secular Humanism goblin better than oh RUSH LIMBAUGH for example, but that for me gets into the "as feminists we must liberate the poor Muslim women from their awful hijab" territory, and, well, no, maybe that should be up to them. But anyway.

[ironed_orchid]

Or reacting to that one frustratingly annoying person that one time who said she was a feminist and not considering that maybe those characteristics have nothing to do with feminist and everything to do with the individual.

[hradzka]

.............man, I hate to admit this, but every single time someone is proudly up-front about how Non-Feminist they are, I take them a lot less seriously. Because, really, if you think women have the right to own property, and vote, and work, and choose their own sexual partners, &c &c -- THAT'S FEMINISM.

My reply to metaphortunate will appear where she originally replied, but I'll read what you are saying to each other over here, because I benefit more from listening to feminist conversations than from having them.

In the meantime, the only reply I will make in this thread is to you, and it is a specific request, because this is something that happens a lot and it is really starting to annoy me.

Please, please, PLEASE, live up to the code you claim and DO NOT TRY TO DICTATE ANOTHER PERSON'S IDENTITY, BE IT PERSONAL, POLITICAL, OR SOCIAL.

Thank you.

[kore]

....I sort of have no idea how to respond to this and have absolutely no desire to start anything like a flamewar in someone else's journal, so I will just bow out here.

[kest]

Just our of curiosity, not knowing you at all or really having any context....what does being 'non-feminist' mean to you?

[metaphortunate]

Well, there are people who look at feminism the historical movement that has largely been run by educated middle-class white women who threw black people under the bus a bit with various levels of intention over the decades, and want to move above that to a more intersectional level of fighting for equal rights for everybody. I can't object to that. Though I believe that is not where hradzka is coming from.